by Yogi Bill
(the material previously in this box was moved to another thread in order to minimize the number of threads in use. See chit chat central.)
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Yogi Bill |
Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yoga |
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Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN and "Babaji's" Kriya Yoga
by Yogi Bill (the material previously in this box was moved to another thread in order to minimize the number of threads in use. See chit chat central.) |
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cody pomeray |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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All right, already. We get it. You don't like Govindan.
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spangled |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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I sympathise, but there are good teachers out there still, if you look.
The whole Babaji thing is a honeypot for credulous Westerners. I'm not saying there's nothing to it, but what we have to deal with is in our own heads! |
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Yogi Bill |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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I was very happy to read spangleds encouraging remark that
"there are good teachers out there still, if you look." I assume he or she means kriya yoga teachers. Who do you recommend? |
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spangled |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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If you mean Babaji lineage teachers I am not qualified to recommend any. However, there are many authentic teachers of traditional lineage in the world today, and if you look around and take a constructive attitude you will find one.
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Yogi Bill |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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Gee, that was so very constructive of you to imply that I do not have a "constructive attitude," without telling me what was so unconstuctive about my attitude. Or have I misunderstood your remark and its implications? This remark by Spangled is typical of his or her entire approach to this website. He is a sort of vandal who vandalizes other peoples threads because he has nothing consturctive of his own to say and nothing better to do with his time.
Also, I did not mean Babaji lineage teachers. Since there is no reason to believe in Babaji (a 2000 year old man who lives near Badrinath, India, but whom you cannot see with physical eyes), there is no reason to believe there is a Babaji lineage. There are, of course, people who seem to think they are part of such a lineage, but exposing such delusions will help increase the general level of knowledge in the yoga field. Of course, the same thing could be said about a lot of established religions, like Christianity or Judaism. Demonstrating the silliness of many of the beliefs of evangelical Christians or Orthodox Jews will help diminish the level of ignorance and thus serves a constructive purpose. |
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YogaVane |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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Dude. You have to let go.
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azyogini |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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Why such a boor, Yogi Bill? You realize you are irritating and alienating folks, right? You seem like a smart enough guy, so why the poor social skills? Purposeful? Or clueless?
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okrgr |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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one of these two threads should be moved to an inactive state
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bandawoman |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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you've got it, Okie, off to ghats.
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Yogi Bill |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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Well, well! Here we are in the ghats! Wow, look at that corpse floating boy! Amazing.
Lets make the ghats the most exciting region of this website! If we all make a big effort, then soon enough, everyone will want to have his or her thread about backward bending or milk drinking posted in the ghats! People will be complaining bitterly that THEIR thread didnt make it into the ghats and has to stay in chit-chat, even though it is superior to other threads that made it into the ghats. Lets hear it for burnt bodies and dead corpses, everyone, three cheers for burnt bodies!!!! |
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Vika The Model |
Re: Story of a Con Man: MARSHALL GOVINDAN; Babaji's Kriya Yo | ||
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I agree. Con artists ruin the integrity of the art.
http://www.myspace.com/theonevika |
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Rudra27 |
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As Ashtanga Yoga still has a thread on MARSHALL GOVINDAN (a.k.a. M. G. Satchidananda), readers should be informed as to who MARSHALL GOVINDAN is and what
"Babaji's Kriya Yoga" (which he teaches) is.
"Babaji's Kriya Yoga" is now taught by Marshall Govindan and his assistants around the world. It is an expensive three-part series of classes on kriya yoga supposedly taught originally by Babaji himself to Yogi Ramaiah, who taught them to Govindan. Marshall Govindan (whom I know personally) doesn't even believe in Babaji--he merely uses the Babaji tale (about a 2000-year-old yogi who supposedly lives near Badrinath, India, but who can't be seen by PHYSICAL eyes) to promote his sadhana classes (on ayurvedic diets, mantras, breathing exercises, meditation, and hatha yoga postures). The sadhana he teaches, I might add, has been found effective only by a small fraction of the people who've taken his classes. Whatever the merits of these teachings, Govindan should stop claiming that he is teaching what "Babaji" supposedly taught to Govindan's recently deceased Indian teacher, Yogi Ramaiah. Govindan has made many substantive changes in the sadhana he received from Ramaiah. If Govindan is right that "Babaji" is the ultimate source of the "teachings" specifically concerning kriya yoga in Ramaiah's classes, then Ramaiah's students must be right when they say that Govindan is not teaching BABAJI'S kriya yoga, but rather something else. Of course, it's ridiculous to believe in "Babaji" in the first place. Govindan appeals to people's interest in astounding miracles in order to sell his expensive set of sadhana classes. He implies that you, too, can learn to do such miracles if only you'll sign up for his sadhana classes. It's rather a base sort of appeal, aside from being a fraudulent one (as hardly any such miracles have ever been demonstated by those willing to subject themselves to conditions imposed by academic researchers investigating paranormal phenomena). Govindan uses false stories of miracles to promote his over-priced, needlessly expensive classes on spiritual topics. They lead people to walk around in a dreamy state filled with illusions and fantasies about incredible "events" that never actually occurred. ..........................(PART TWO)............................ A Canadian who calls himself Marshall Govindan, a.k.a. M. G. Satchidananda, teaches an expensive series of classes on what he terms "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" (see www.babaji.ca/ or www.babaji.ca/NewSite/home.htm). Although he presents himself as a spiritual teacher whose mission is to help others progress on the spiritual path of kriya yoga, he is, first and foremost, a salesman and fundraiser. I have found, over a seven-year relationship with Govindan during which time I considered him to be my teacher, that virtually everything he says and does is motivated by the goal of getting as many people as possible to sign up for his classes, buy his books, and donate funds to his organization. He is interested in students only so long as they are likely to sign up for further classes. Once you've taken all his classes, it's unlikely you'll be able to keep in touch with him or ask him questions. Govindan does his best to convince you that when you take his classes, you're not simply receiving the information given in class, but you're also getting a teacher who will answer your questions and assist you on the spiritual path. In fact, Govindan resents having to answer questions, answers grudgingly, and complains bitterly if you you ask him as few as four or five questions a year that you are asking "hundreds and hundreds of questions." He is not interested in whether people who take his classes benefit from them, practice the techniques, or advance spiritually. His only real concern is the quantity of people signing up for classes and the size of the donations that are made by those who have taken the classes. I feel cheated by Govindan. He told me that the techniques are secret and cannot be published because it is important to learn them personally from a teacher and to work on them in association with a teacher. In reliance on this statement, and with the expectation that taking Govindan's series of expensive classes would enable me to obtain guidance from him on my spiritual practice, I travelled to India and Japan in order to take his classes, only to discover--after I finished the series and Govindan had no more classes to sign me up for--that Govindan had no intention of assisting me in any way. Apparently, once you finish his series of classes and he can't get anything more out of you, he's done with you and doesn't want to hear from you again. This explains what the secrecy is really all about--if the techniques were published, Govindan couldn't get you to sign up for his classes and hence wouldn't be able to make any money from you. The secrecy has nothing to do with getting students to obtain guidance from the teacher, because such guidance (if it takes Govindan more than a few minutes per year) is not available. Govindan has a wild imagination in thinking up excuses for not providing guidance. Even when you're practicing meditation diligently, he'll tell you you're not practicing and he doesn't want to work with people who aren't practicing. Or, when you don't understand something he wrote and seek clarification (because after all, Govindan is a rather poor writer), he'll tell you you're being "too intellectual," and leave it at that. Govindan's behavior reminds me of that of the behavior of Cuban government officials in 1939. Manuel Benitez, the director of immigration in Cuba in 1939, made money by selling landing permits which would allow Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to land in Cuba. He sold these permits to any Jew who would pay $150. The Cuban government nullified the permits after they had been sold. The Jews sailed to Cuba, but were then forced to return to Europe because the permits were not honored. Likewise, Govindan sells admission tickets to a series of classes and an organization called "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" and claims that he is available to assist you. Only after you've paid for all his classes do you learn that he is not available to assist you. The organization Govindan runs called "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" does not exist in anything like the form Govindan claims it exists. Govindan lists a large number of "contact people" around the world on his website at www.babaji.ca/NewSite/contacts.htm . The purpose of the list is to make "Babaji's Kriya Yoga" appear to be a much larger organization than it actually is, which would encourage more people to become interested in taking Govindan's classes. Several months ago, I emailed all the people on the list and found that half the "contact people" outside the U.S. did not even reply, and three quarters of the "contact people" in the U.S. did not even reply! Much of this false information (about non-existent phantom "contact people") has been posted online for several years, even though Govindan was well aware during all that time that it was false. I told one of Govindan's assistant teachers about this and he told me Govindan was planning to correct the misinformation. When I checked the contact list recently, I found that although a small amount of the misinformation had been corrected, the list still contains a vast amount of misinformation. I don't mean to imply that Govindan has never in the past been helpful, or that he is incapable of being helpful. There have been a few occasions on which he was helpful. However, I hardly think that this justifies his refusal to give assistance after the training has been completed. So far as I am able to determine, the small amount of assistance he gives is simply to encourage people to finish his series of classes. After the series is finished by a student, he sees no reason to continue to provide assistance because he has no more classes in which to enroll such a student, and hence no way to make more money from such a student. Thus, those who have completed his series of classes are left with a set of complex exercises, but with no one to guide them or advise them on their practice. A large number of former students of Govindan have lost respect for him because they have found him to be dishonest and untrustworthy. He does not keep his agreements with his assistant teachers (known as "acharyas"), and consequently he has far more FORMER assistant teachers than active ones. Govindan simply can't be trusted. He preys on people's need for spiritual guidance in order to make money and keep his organization afloat, but he doesn't provide the guidance he promises. An example of Govindan's approach to finances is the policy he once stated to me, that Westerners may not take his classes in India, but must take them in Western countries or in Japan. Obviously, if he was interested primarily in benefitting students, he wouldn't care where they took the classes. His reason for banning Westerners from taking his classes in India is simply that he doesn't make much (if any) money from his Indian classes, which are either free or very inexpensive, whereas he earns something more substantial from the classes he teaches in the West or in Japan. I consider his discriminatory policy based on nationality to be highly unethical. In the U.S. or Europe, people are never kept out of meditation classes on the ground that they are Indian nationals and should take classes only in India. Govindan's classes on kriya yoga are taught in a far less professional manner than were those of his recently deceased teacher, "Yogi" Ramaiah. Ramaiah personally checked at length each student in his classes to make sure that they were practicing the techniques correctly. Govindan does that task so quickly (sometimes in four or five seconds) that it is impossible for him to have actually determined whether the student is doing the exercise correctly. He doesn't even wait to observe one full breath from a student before moving on to the next student learning a breathing exercise. He also turns over the task of checking the students to incompetent assistants--people who do not themselves practice the exercises or know how to do them correctly. For example, he once used an elderly Indian man to check the students' breathing practices. When I asked this assistant about the instruction to close the glottus more on the exhalation than on the inhalation, this man became embarrassed and admitted that he didn't know anything about how to close the glottus or whether it should be closed in a different manner on the exhalation than on the inhalation. Some of Govindan's beliefs are quite ridiculous. For example, he believes that in five or ten minutes, he can train people to prescribe ayurvedic diets for each other. There are three detailed versions of these ayurvedic diets, all of which are quite different from the others. Govindan thinks that in a few minutes, he can train people to tell other people which of these three diets is best for them. Govindan also believes that specific yoga postures (called "asanas") can cure serious diseases that even the best doctors in the world cannot cure. He has also taught that if Sri Aurobindo had practiced asanas, he would have become immortal. |
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satishvijayan |
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Without in any way commenting on Govindan, whom I don't know from Adam, if your perception is accurate then your assessment is correct.
A true spiritual 'guru' does not expect monetary compensation. Typically they expect you to make a personal sacrifice of some sort - for the welfare of others. You may be asked to help out with building a temple/church/orphanage or some such. A spiritual guru's only goal is to break the bonds that tie you to the mundane. In my experience however true guru's are rare. They will find you once you are ready. You must continue your spiritual quest with humility and accept the time/money spent as part of the learning curve. Your experiences have taught you to not be so gullible. When Vivekanand (Naren at that point) first met Ramakrishna he would bombard him with questions. He did not accept anything the great man said without rigourously challenging and attacking him. For his part Ramakrishna said that a. I can see God as clearly as I can see you. b. if you try hard enough you will realize God. c. Your efforts must be unceasing and you must have the courage of a lion. (ie. it takes years to wipe out the thoughtless actions of millenia, but you must persevere) d. Do not be selfish and expect salvation/help only for yourself. You've to help a thousand others - hands that serve are holier than lips that pray. A true guru does not expect anything of you, except more effort than you've ever put into anything:). I would be on the lookout for people who're creating ripples through their positive impact on society. Without in any way foisting my beliefs on you - I believe in Sai Baba - despite all the rumours about him. Among other things he's assured drinking water to about a 10,000 villages. Anyone through dint of austerities can achieve some Siddhis. But a true guru will tell you that Siddhis are just frippary. Don't focus on them. Yogananda would have said the same. I believe the schools he's started in India are still extant. You should go to them if you're of a mind. On a parallel track, I would continue any meditation/yoga practice you are currently doing. If you are able to meditate for 2-3 hours - you are already beyond 'monetary' gurus - don't under any circumstances stop your disciplined saadhana. Look for people of a like mind - the 'satsang' - a group such as this is a good place to start. I don't believe one needs anything else. Disclaimer: this is from my perspective as a spiritual aspirant scratching the bottom rung of the ladder. |
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